[E.24] Codependency, Boundaries, Learning Self Trust & Stepping Forward Into Growth with Trauma Therapist & Coach Tara Phillips

Episode 24 of the Restoring The Day Podcast with Tara Phillips, Licensed Therapist, Trauma and Empowerment Coach.

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Unknown Speaker 0:05

Welcome to the restoring that a podcast. I'm your host, Susan Shannon. I hope entrepreneurs and small business owners grow and expand their businesses without the burnout and the overwhelm that so many of us experience on a daily basis. This podcast blends soul and strategy to help equip you, the modern entrepreneur with the inspiration, clarity and tools. You need to fuel steady, rounded growth in your business, and your personal life as well. So you can continue having an impact in your community and in our world, beyond what you can even imagine.

Susan Shannon 0:50

Welcome back to the restoring the day show. Tara Phillips is on the podcast today. Tara is a relationship trauma therapist and coach with over 17 years of experience. So I feel super fortunate and honored to have you on the podcast today, Tara, we're going to get into some amazingly deep things. I just know it. I can't wait to hear so much about you tell people where you're from in the world right now.

Tara Phillips 1:16

Well, hi, Susan. Thanks for having me on today. So I am from New York. Born and raised here. I am a licensed therapist in New York state. And so I'm a licensed clinical social worker within our privileged that that matters anything but in New York State, and I've been practicing for 17 years, I have a private practice. And I also have a coaching business as well.

Susan Shannon 1:45

Amazing. So why trauma specifically, I can't wait to just dive right in here.

Tara Phillips 1:51

Um, so when I was really on my started my journey about 1314 years ago, I was struggling with a lot of anxiety, really, really bad anxiety, some mood issues. And I just felt emotionally chaotic. My relationships were chaotic, they were difficult. And I had so much shame because I was in the therapy field. And I started to realize that what I learned in school was fantastic, but it didn't teach me really practical healing, real life situations and tools. And so I started on this journey to figure out how to create, what I really wanted was emotional stability. I was tired of living in fear of other people's judgments, their opinions of me, truly just terrified of that rejection. And I wanted peace and stability in my life. But I had no idea how to how to achieve that. So I'd read a bunch of different books, and I went to different therapist, and you know, I get a little bit, but then I never just really left any of the sessions going, oh my gosh, like massive lightbulb moment and was like, okay, you know, I can do it all. And I can do gratitude and I can do the mirror work and I can do those things. But it just never hit at the core that I needed to to really start healing. So I went down this path of figuring out what trauma was the connection to trauma. And in to me, that was a game changer. It was a game changer for my life and also for my clients in the work that I did with them. And that when I started to understand why I did what I did, right, like why I feared judgment, abandonment, rejection from people. And why I was people people pleasing. Why had no boundaries. Why I was self sacrificing, was a response to drama was a response to that deep fear that if I engage in these things, and maybe maybe you won't reject me, maybe you won't abandon me. It's when I understood it from that trauma perspective. It was like, Oh, my gosh, this makes total sense. Which was amazing, because I made the connection, but then I was left with Okay, yeah, well, well, now what? Right? And this is the thing that I have come to realize in the field that I feel like is somewhat lacking, is it people can talk about the connections, but they're not left with actionable steps and how to truly heal, how to stop people pleasing, how to put boundaries in place, right, how to stop rescuing and caretaking relationships. Because when you tell somebody to stop doing that, they're gonna have panic attacks, they're going to have severe anxiety, what I call a trauma response. And to me, that's what I focus on is helping people understand, right? That why why we do Those things isn't a level of of survival. It's protecting ourselves protecting our wounds. So we can't just take those away and replace them with something else. Like we have to develop safety within ourselves and in our relationships to start implementing different responses. Right, like learning how to create safety in my heart and in my body to set a boundary. So that so anyways, that took me down my. So then I started to do the work, I started to delve into a lot of codependency, which, you know, from my perspective, everybody has codependent traits our society encourages it. But really, where so many of us struggle is because how we show up in our adult relationships is often we're carrying these aisled hood survival responses. They're normal, and they served us. But when we get into our adult relationships, we're struggling, and but I don't know what else to do. So I looked at that I healed a lot of my responses. And I empowered myself, I created a change. And I figured out how to create that stability, and how to let go of the chaos and how to really create a safe, secure life. So once I figured that out, and I lived it, am living it still, every day, it's always a journey. And then I brought that into my sessions. And I will tell you, that is when things took an amazing shift in my business and my clients. It's been amazing to watch. So this is why eat breathe, sleep trauma work now because I know the impact. It's truly what this is where change has to come from.

Susan Shannon 6:47

Oh, I haven't stopped like getting goosebumps. This whole time you've been talking. I can relate to so much of what you just said. And that's why I'm so excited to have you here on the podcast because you have so much valuable experience. And I know that you mentioned like this list of oh, people pleasing and setting up boundaries. And it's like, Oh, that's pretty much everybody who pops into my DMs everybody who was it was by no, not everybody, I'm sure. But if you're listening to this, and you're like, Oh, is she talking to me? Yeah, yeah. Yep. So we're so glad that you're here, listeners, thank you so much for being here. And, okay, I have been writing down questions like crazy, because there's so many things that I want to be able to pull out of that. But same I just want to say really quick to so people have some perspective as well, too. And why this is something that's so important to me as well, too. You know, I had the such a similar story. The minute somebody the minute I was in a room with somebody who said, Hey, let's talk about maybe why these things are coming. Let's talk about maybe these are trauma responses. Like immediately from that moment, again, like you said, the light bulb goes on, and even that awareness and then doing the work and diving into that. Wow, talk about quantum leaps forward in progress, as opposed to, you know, years of talk therapy, maybe even before that, which was great. But once the trauma integration came in, it was just quantum leaps forward as far as my own progress as well. So amazing. Okay, codependency also you mentioned in there. I'm trying to figure out what question I want to ask first, because I have so many. Alright, you mentioned first of all, I just want to say you said I wanted emotional stability. And that's something that comes up for a lot of us is that we feel maybe so deeply impacted by what's happening around us. And we feel you know, and that can come into play in every area of our life, whether we want to succeed at work, or be a better parent, a better partner, everything like that. So and you've been able to really work with clients with that as well, too, and bringing this trauma integration in. Okay, I guess that wasn't really a question. But I want to hop into this one. You mentioned our society encourages codependency. Can you talk about how you see that playing

Tara Phillips 9:23

out? Sure. I think that in a lot of ways. There's maybe some unspoken or maybe perhaps unspoken rules, depending on who you are and what goes on in your world, that there are certain expectations for how we're supposed to be and how we're supposed to show up in our relationships, right, that there are certain expectations for one person in the relationship to be, quote unquote, the caretaker, right, the nurturer. And in my perspective, I think a lot of that is a survival response. It's a protective mechanism. And a lot of people think, well, that's how I'm supposed to be. Right? I think that so let me back up a little bit for those that may not understand fully codependency. And when I talk about codependency, I don't necessarily talk about it in the realm of the addiction component, because that's really where it came from, was in looking at the the addict, or the alcoholic in their relationship, they generally found there was a loved one, the caretaker. And so then they kind of took a deep dive into this other person and some of their characteristics that they have. Now, when I talk about codependency in my clients, it's more about the the tendencies, you know, the caretaker, the rescuer, the lack of boundaries, the lack of self esteem, lack of communication, all of those things and how they show up in their relationship that is truly at the core of a lot of their problems where they're not feeling connected, they don't feel respected, their needs are not being met. The only show up as a caretaker, and we believe my job is to make sure that everybody is okay. Well, in order to do that, we put ourselves on the backburner our thoughts or needs or wants? And in the beginning, that feels great, right? Because there's also a sense of purpose, and a sense of worth that many of us get from being the caretaker. Okay, so we started off the relationships feeling very, very good, right? It's okay, I feel complete. Yeah, the problem is, over time, there grows to a lot of anger and a lot of resentment. And because your needs aren't getting much, you'd have to self sacrifice in order to keep the peace, status quo the relationship. Okay. So that learning how to balance that out, how do I show up in my relationships, having mutual respect for each other for myself, my needs my wants, but also looking at the people in my life, that they're fully capable of taking care of themselves, and managing their emotions, managing their reactions, right? So that I don't have to jump in and rescue them, or figure out how to be two steps ahead. So they, their mood isn't triggered, which then in case, if they're not, okay, that means that I'm not going to be okay. Right. So a lot of these things that we think are normal, that society kind of encourages, really our survival responses to protect our fears and wounds of being hurt, being rejected, damaged, abandoned. So we show up in our relationships truly from a point of just surviving. So after what I what I help people understand, and this was a big journey, I was like a Olympic codependent. I realize like how to show up right, in a different way, how to not jump in and rescue, it is not very easy. And the problem is that it brings up anxiety and it brings up a lot of fear. Right, because me dumping in a caretaking has taught me that that's kept me safe. Right, but the reality is, your relationships won't thrive and they won't be balanced and healthy.

Susan Shannon 13:18

Yeah, oh, so powerful. And, and I want to say too, that this can show up in every relationship that we have in our life, every single one. So if you have it, correct me if I'm wrong, if we're having maybe codependency patterns with our personal relationships, we might likely have them with our best friend, or we might kind of show up that way. We might have them with our co workers, you know, in maybe a more subdued way. But is that is that true? Do we kind of start to

Tara Phillips 13:49

Oh, absolutely. We don't pick and choose where it shows, right? For the core, and this is our survival. Yeah. And in certain relationships, or certain areas of your life, ones that may be more threatening to you on a deeper level, your codependency is going to be more intense. And it is across the board. It isn't just in one or two areas of your life. This is how I show up in my world. And this is how I show up in all my relationships, because this is all that I know. Right? Yeah, I know, when I bring this up and talk about people, they usually have a very strong reaction. Right? Because this is their survival. This is their safety mechanism. And now I'm telling you, hey, we need to let this go. That's not so easy. But this is the work that truly may go back to your original question of that emotional stability, right of like, how do I create that? emotional stability is when I'm thriving, and I'm present. Right? And all areas of my life are balanced. In order to do that, we have to let go of just surviving and we have to figure out how to start thriving.

Susan Shannon 14:57

So beautiful. So just For some context to, if you're listening, and you're kind of like, already self reflecting a little bit, which is likely happening, because we're talking about very, very vulnerable topics here. So first of all, I want to let you guys know, listening that, you know, this is this is a safe time for you to kind of just do some self reflection to kind of notice where these things might be popping up in your life and, and just notice them for right now, because we're going to continue listening, and we'll talk more about this, but just notice them for right now, I really encourage you to not come into this self reflection with any self judgment whatsoever. And really just just be here with us right now and keep listening, we have more amazing things to share with you. I also want to share that a little bit about how I started to notice where my trauma responses, my codependency was coming up, I feel like a lot of people close to me have first discovered it in their personal relationships, and then have been able to pinpoint where it's happening in other areas of their life. For me, I feel like I was a little bit more oblivious and unaware of where it was happening in my personal life. But I was trying to grow a business. And I kept getting stuck at the same places. And if I was working with a coach who wasn't aware of, of trauma responses, and anything like that of those triggers for me, they couldn't figure out why I would have I would just freeze all of a sudden, or why I would build up this momentum and then gets so stuck in my tracks. And so I started to almost obsessively try to figure it out. I'm like, because I'm a coach, too, right? I'm like, I'm gonna figure this out. Why do I get stuck? Why do I? Why do these things happen? Why does it feel like I build up all this momentum and then boom, I'm back to where I started. Why, why, why? And then again, that's when I learned about more of this. And it was like a light bulb went on. I was like, Oh my gosh, well, if I'm struggling with that here, oh, and there it is. Oh, and there it is, in my personal relationships. Oh, and there it is, with those friendships. Oh, and there it is. There. There it is, in all of these other places. And so if you're listening to like, I feel like for me, that came up from a really interesting way. It was a little bit of a different avenue, I was so driven, and I wanted so badly to grow this business. And I couldn't and I felt stuck. And I felt trapped. I didn't know why. And so that is a huge, that was a huge turning point for me. realizing why I would always undercharged and say yes to clients who were, you know, needed me to be their Savior, etc. You know, all the things. So if you're listening to this, too, and maybe that's maybe that's your story, too. Maybe you're kind of at the stuck point in your business, you can't figure out why you can't really wrap up that momentum. That was my turning point was recognizing that, you know, it wasn't just that I could work my way out of that trauma, I had to really step away and heal before I could really grow my business, which is just so amazing.

Tara Phillips 18:25

Absolutely.

Susan Shannon 18:26

So you started you, you really came into trauma, you didn't start your work as a licensed therapist in trauma right away. Is that correct?

Tara Phillips 18:38

Well, I mean, you do, right? You do? Yeah. To the degree that I have taken it. Now. I mean, there's there's obviously training in PTSD and anxiety and depression. Even just post traumatic stress, necessarily full disorder. So there is definitely training but not to the degree of the attachment stuff. The codependency like the narcissistic abuse, I mean, there's a whole lot of it. But yeah, not to the degree that I that I am. Well, I did want to add or just add to what you're saying too about business and figure out your child responses. First place really so think about our guests to consider is when we have a response where we're feeling stuck, it's often because a familiar feeling has been triggered. One that has been maybe vulnerable, one that has led us to getting hurt, to being ridiculed to being rejected to being judged or abandoned. It's that emotion that has gotten triggered in us. And if we don't know how to respond and work through that emotion and a different way, that often creates a stuck point. So sometimes just if you're feeling it right like what Whatever it is, like I've got that momentum, and then I kind of hit a hit that point, ask yourself, like, what is it that I'm feeling right now? And went out that I felt like this. And I found that to be very, very powerful question, because a lot of times I can go Oh, yeah, I remember when I was 10. And I was sitting outside, you know, and this and this happened. And I, I find that powerful because it allows us to detach from it being the current moment, and allows us to move through the current stuff going, okay. So it's not that I'm actually being rejected, it's that I was when I was 10. And this happened, and that feeling is coming up for me. So to detach a little bit from them, current moment, take a deep breath, right and going, but wait a second, that's in the past, not now. So I can move forward and move through that trigger, trigger response, emotion

Susan Shannon 20:58

that comes up all the time. When we as business owners, I feel like are looking to grow, like you said, when we are looking to expand when we are looking to maybe put our offer out on social media for the first time. When we are you know, that fear of abandonment comes up for me, I was terrified to post about my business on Facebook for years. Because I was so scared of, you know, the people who follow me they're like, saw me grow up and what are they ever gonna think? And I, I refused, you know, it was easier for me to post it on Instagram, because I felt like that was a new organic group of followers that didn't know me from the past. But to post it out where people from my life could see me I was so scared of what they would think. So scared of how they would label me then. Wow. And I know that that is a lot of people a lot of fun.

Tara Phillips 21:58

To to and I absolutely even doing this work, right, like I know it, but I'm still a human being if an experience a lot of things and still have those emotions. But I knew enough that in order to move through that fear, I almost had to kind of sit in it and do it anyways. And to kind of create what they call a disconfirming experience that my fear of them judging me, right abandoning me rejecting me, perhaps isn't going to be true anymore. I'm older and wiser. I'm an adult, I'm in a very different place in my life, right? So when I really showed up on Facebook with all people that have been told me my whole life, like the chaotic emotional person that I used to be right, like, hey, like, I own it, here's my story, but it's not me anymore. And that was terrifying. I remember like having severe anxiety, but then guess Wha, the people that supported me responded. And then the people that maybe didn't, they move down. And it was that moment of like, oh my gosh, this is okay. But I what I did was I am safe. I am safe to show up and to be my full self. And on social media. Now. I am not that wounded child. But I don't have to go to these extreme measures and lengths to keep myself hidden and in the back of the room right now on social media at all, like I am safe now. That's what I encourage people to do is to look at it and saying, Am I'm safe right now? Just okay. Yeah, that was okay. No, no, we need to tell our nervous system or central nervous system, you are safe to show up this way. Absolutely. And I will share I think it was a week ago we can half ago, I was just starting to launch a group program that I have. And all of it came up I was excited right now that the momentum and then all of a sudden I was like, but what? Right and then it like hooked me to this place again. And I tapped into like, Tara, what is it this feeling? When have you felt this way and was like, Okay, here we go again, took myself through these steps. And I was able to bring myself back up to that momentum again. We're human beings, but it's that we find those steps we find the things that are going to bring us back to current moment to help us move through and we don't get stuck and paralyzed. That's kind of what I feel like it is two years paralyzes, like, major stock point.

Susan Shannon 24:20

completely debilitating levels of paralysis. I feel like that's, yeah, that's a very relatable feeling. Do we do? I can't I can't think I can't process I can't make decisions. Yes, totally. So okay. Oh, this is so good. So are you cool if I like throw maybe a couple small scenarios at you. And maybe one related to growth in business and one related to wanting to grow maybe when you feel like there's somebody else in your life close to you that feels like it's disallowing. that growth, can we talk about maybe putting up boundaries and setting up safety in both of those scenarios?

Tara Phillips 25:05

Yeah. I love this stuff. Oh, yay. All right,

Susan Shannon 25:09

so good. And this is the stuff that moves the needle in our lives. This, this is the stuff right here. Alright, so we'll start with the personal relationship. One, not everybody listening might be an entrepreneur, a lot of people are. But let's start with the personal relationships. One, let's say there is some codependency happening in the relationship, a lot of your lifestyle has been kind of curated to making sure that they're okay, appeasing them, making sure that the relationship stays in a good place. And maybe you feel like the need to grow and expand and put up a boundary and continue on your self growth healing journey. And you're noticing and you're feeling some resistance from this person in your life. Can you walk our audience through? If they're feeling like that? What are some ways to approach that situation? feeling safe? And moving through that with ease?

Tara Phillips 26:16

Sure. That's a good question. Um, well, first off, if I was to talk with somebody, I would really assess the safety of that relationship. Just because, you know, first off, I would want them to communicate, right to sit down, have a conversation in a very healthy way, where they are able to express their thoughts, their feelings needs, where they want to go, how they're feeling all of that, and for their partner to receive that in a safe way. Because a lot of times we do show up in our relationships is the caretaker. Maybe even the rescuer. In a lot of times, it's sometimes because we've paired up with somebody that wants and needs to be taken care of. So there's that dynamic. And sometimes we show up in that, because that's what's been passed on to us. And our family dynamics, that's normal. And so part of it is just having a conversation saying, hey, you know, that's the comp kind of feeling. And I really feel like I'd like to balance things out. So I was wondering if you could maybe to start taking this on. And if they respond well, then that's probably an old family dynamic that you've taken on, right. The other part is that if they do want to be taken care of, or they feel that that's what's going on, then that definitely needs to get addressed a little bit. But I would first start, before you have the conversation, if you're if you're kind of identifying with this and connecting with it, is to sit with yourself for a little bit, maybe do some journaling, do some note taking of how you're, how you're feeling, what you're really needing, and what specifically you need changed. And a lot of times we'll come to the conversations and well, this is how I'm feeling. This is what you're doing or not doing. And that's it. And then the other person's left will Okay, that's great. But what do you need? Right? And I know that many of us expect our partners to be able to read your mind, they should know, we've been together for 25 years, they should just know. Right? And they don't. So go to that conversation, having a lot of clarity, on feeling, what is it that I need? And if the relationship were balanced, and I felt safe, what would that look like feel like sound like for me, so that you can go to that conversation with everything, and you can have a really good healthy conversation with your partner. And then, you know, and then if you if you express it to them, and they don't receive it well, or they turn around to manipulate you or they try to gaslight you or shame you or basically tell you no, that's not gonna happen? Well, there's a bigger issue in that relationship. Right. And so there's two things with codependency really, really quick is that one, it's either a learned response, right? Part of this is like generational trauma. Right? Somewhere in our lineage. This person learned how to create safety by showing up in this way. Right. And then the other part is that we developed it because we were unsafe, whether emotionally mentally, and or physically. So if I'm also showing up in this way still, is there a chance that I really don't feel safe with my partner? And if that's the case, what is it that doesn't make that's triggering and of safety for me? So, personally, I know that it's not a super simple answer, because it can be pretty complex, but that's where I would start. Start getting clarity within yourself. Why am I feeling the way that I am? What is that I know? Need? And what would it look like, you know, like sound like for me.

Susan Shannon 30:07

I love that. I love that really getting clear. And maybe that can even be something. I know that sometimes. I've talked about it here on the podcast before, too. I think it took me a really long time to know what I needed. At first, I would be like, I'm kind of upset, but like, don't ask me what I need, like, how am I supposed to know I'm, I'm the one making sure you're okay all the time.

Tara Phillips 30:31

And that's a really good point. I hear that probably every day in my sessions. And I experienced it too, was it I know what's making me mad? I know what's frustrating me. But the truth is, I have no idea what I want. Because when you've been in a state of survival, and your survival is to show up for everybody else. And there's a level of detachment that happens to us, when we experience any sort of trauma, whether it's physical, emotional relationship, attachment trauma, is that we have to detach from us to be able to take care of other people to do that really well. Right? So we get into these adult relationships, I'm angry, I'm really hurt. My heart is broken. When I asked what would you like? I don't know what I need, because I don't know who I am. Because I've been just surviving. And surviving. You know, you're not focusing on our emotional health. You're just straight up. Right and be okay. And survive. Yeah. So part of this whole work is like ferret who and MIT and take the time, right? Give yourself permission to just sit without. And I also want people, if you're resonating with this, to really hear that this is normal. It isn't. Okay. I experienced it. And I will tell you, almost everybody that I work with. does the same thing. I don't know who I am. I don't know why I need want to normalize that. And maybe that's just the place to start.

Susan Shannon 31:56

Yes. Oh, yes. Absolutely nothing to feel like you're alien in nothing to feel like you're somehow weird, strange or unacceptable? are on okay. You are? So in good company here.

Tara Phillips 32:11

Oh, absolutely. And the other piece, too, is it like when you're the caretaker? Right? We tend to be very overly responsible people, where not only do we take on, like the responsibility for us, but for our loved ones, and all the household responsibilities and the family and all of that. So there's something for like us to not know or not be able to be in control of or to fix is very triggering. And then we have this expectation where I should know, right? Because look, I manage everything for everybody else. How can I not know this? And it's really frustrating, because there's an internal conflict within us that I see a lot as well.

Susan Shannon 32:50

Hmm. Oh, yeah. So that kind of makes me laugh. I'm talking about being responsible for everybody. I was recently working with my coach, and we were talking about, you know, really allowing, allowing my body to tell me what I need. And we were talking, we're just giving examples and trying to throw ideas out there about what would it look like for me to completely let myself lose, and I love these kinds of conversations. I'll actually love bringing these end up with my client work as well, too. But this funny, one camp came up about like, Well, what about just, you know, what would it feel like to lay in bed all day? And my immediate response was like, Are you kidding me? Do you realize all the things that would not get done all of the chaos that would reign if I stayed in bed all day, you know, and I love that? I love that that was my response, because it was able to show me like, hey, where am I taking on responsibility? That's not mine to take on? Like, obviously, as a parent, that's not a good situation. But could I take a day, where I set up the boundaries, where I said, you know, these things are all taken care of, and the day is off, and I'm, I'm not going to be responsible for anything. Does that still freak me out? And the answer is, yeah, so I should, you know, that's like an indicator like, okay, then how can we kind of start to lean into that a little bit more. And that helps me again, to notice again, where I, what do I need? Again, piggybacking on that question of what do I need? I find that if I noticed my how dramatic my responses sometimes are, too. Oh, I can't do that. Or oh, are you kidding me? Oh, that sometimes that's an indicator that like maybe I actually need to look into that a little bit more. Maybe I need that space.

Tara Phillips 34:43

I was talking to a client about that this week of how many of us we live our life in that sort of survival sort of mentality by these unspoken rules, these unwritten rules that we grew up with, and then we just keep living. That's just what I'm supposed to do. And but we don't really ever take a step back. But do these rules work for me and my family? And can I give myself permission to rewrite the rules that's going to support me that's an alignment with who I am, what I need and how we want to live our life. And that was a that was a game changer was one for me. Like, I remember I couldn't. One big thing that I had to start with was it I, I did not feel like it was okay. And this is just based on how I grew up for me to take care of me to relax until all the cleaning all the chores, all the responsibility was done. And I was really, I was overstressed. I was going through divorce, I was single parents having to figure it all out, working full time, all of that. And I was stressed. And everyone's like, Terry, you gotta relax. I can't write. So I had to force myself to sit on the couch, knowing that there was like four dishes in the sink. And I forced myself to sit in anxiety and tell myself that was going to be okay. Right. And to trust that who I was, was a person that liked to live a certain way. And that it was okay for me to watch this TV show that I was still going to be okay. And I was going to be safe knowing that there was four dishes in the sink. And I sat in that anxiety. And I sat in it and I sat in it and I worked on it to to reprogram those rules, that it was okay, now he okay, but it was necessary for me to take care of me that I needed to make me a priority. But I couldn't do that because it wasn't okay, that wasn't the rule. And I just had a conversation with a client about this week, and she found that very outgoing. She sacrificed herself put everything on the backburner. I was overwhelmed, wasn't sleeping. She's saying, but I can't I have all these things I have to do. And just the idea of saying, Hey, it's okay not to do this was her lightbulb moment. Give yourself permission.

Susan Shannon 36:54

I love that so much. Yeah, it's a game changer for sure. Let's go to the other scenario. So we talked and I'm sure women, we could talk about that for hours, we come back to that same scenario again and again and again. So guys, if you're listening in on this, I want to take a quick second to interject. Go follow Tara on Instagram, Tara, what's your Instagram handle?

Tara Phillips 37:16

Not Tara Phillips coaching. Yes.

Susan Shannon 37:19

So at Phil, Tara Phillips coaching on Instagram, make sure that you go follow her because she does drop some amazing content on their stuff that's gonna make you stop and be able to sit with yourself on some of these things and ponder and do some self reflection. And I just love what you're sharing with doTERRA. So quick introduction there, if you guys are really eating this up, definitely follow her as well, too. Okay, so let's talk about this scenario, in business, or in your job. So even if you're, whether you run your own business, your own practice, or you know, people listening, you're an entrepreneur, or maybe you're just side hustling, you've got another job, you work as well, too. Let's say you want to be able to grow and expand in your in your career. And you're noticing you keep getting stuck along the same points. Again, this one was a big aha moment. For me. I had a lot of again, by how I was raised to I had a lot coming up around, well, I'm a woman, I am a mom, I have other things I have to focus on. It's absolutely selfish for me to try to run a business, you know, with this going on. And I mean, I had some really deep conditioning around that as well as even around my background of can women actually be as much of a leader as I feel like I want to be or need to be huge thing that kept pushing me back and keeping me stuck there as well too, as, I don't feel like I'm supposed to be doing this or I'm cut out for this or that's a conversation for another day. But let's say whatever is coming up for listeners around wanting to grow or advance in their business or in their career, and they're like, I'm ready to grow. Everything inside me is like, Yes, let's go. But I'm terrified. And I feel like all these things are standing in my way. And I feel like all these people are going to disapprove and and and and and so can you speak into that situation about how we can start to walk through that with safety?

Tara Phillips 39:27

That's a good question. Um, well, for me, I think it always goes back to connecting with our emotions, right, like really getting clear on what are those fears? And I think this is where it's, it's helpful to be able to kind of work it through with somebody, whether it's a coach, his therapist, it's a it's a friend, a mentor, whoever it is, because we do have blind spots, right? And we have these core beliefs, and we have our life experiences that have proved to us at some point, right? Whether it was just passed on to us, or as a learned experience that, hey, this isn't okay. But if I do this, and I'm not safe, if I do this, I'm vulnerable. Part of it is we have to I really identify what is that core fear? What is that core belief that I'm still holding on to? Right. And I think part of it is very how to detach from that currently. Right, which is kind of going back to is it happening now? He didn't lens in which we see ourselves that we're older, we're wiser, we're more capable. Right? Then I'm a capable, strong adult. Now. I'm not a vulnerable child. Right. So we need to empower ourselves. And then I also think, to his learning this is where, like, I get really passionate about is learning how to confront those fears. Whether it's putting a boundary in place, whether it's really engaging in really, really deep self care, doing some deep journaling around that fear. How can I create safety? In this, whether it's talking to myself building myself up? Or do I need to show up in a different way? Meaning? Do I need to put some boundaries up with people that actually aren't safe? That perhaps maybe they shouldn't have access to things on social media? Right? So there are also the legitimate reasons why people don't feel safe, because I've experienced that this person or this situation is actually not safe. So how can I still stand on my power shelf, my business do what I want to do, but while feeling safe, right? So we have to figure out what specifically is it about this situation, this person that makes me feel afraid or vulnerable? And then we're going to go, Okay, what options do we have? And we, you know, put a boundary up and we block them? Can we, you know, whatever that may be, right? Would be having a direct conversation, that would terrify people, right? But how can I take my power back from that moment from that situation or that person, so that I can move through that, and not a terrifying feeling vulnerable all the time.

Susan Shannon 42:17

Amazing. So two things in there. First of all, I love how you said a couple of different times that that our life experiences have proved that there is reason to be afraid of these things. I think when I think I used to, and whether it was you know, also people telling me like we'll just get over it, people aren't actually thinking that will just get over it. Like, that's not actually true. That's not happening. And what that was, was they were trying to help. But that was, but that's what I've been told myself as well. You're feeling that way. But that's not true. So then the message was that what you know, I was what I was feeling was not true, therefore, I wasn't trustworthy, etc. So I love how you said and honed in on the fact that that is like that is like proof that that actually happened is why you're feeling that today. You're not crazy, you are trustworthy, you can trust how you feel. That's, to me, that's huge. Because I actually just recently made that connection where you know, all the people that told me well just get over it. That's not true. Like you're just, you know, just get your head out of the gutter and start thinking positively about this over here. But like, No, I actually have these feelings, because because these things have happened to me, these people have had these responses with me, I don't feel safe in these kind of situations, because I have experienced XYZ.

Tara Phillips 43:48

That's amazing. I'm sorry to interject. But that's amazing. Because that is often why we have such a stuck point or that internal conflict, because I'm feeling this way. But everyone around me is telling me that my feelings are wrong. Yeah, yeah, they stuck. Right. I tell the client this all the time. And this is one of the I'm really glad you brought this up. Because one of the most powerful moments in terms of how can we move through these tough points? How can we empower ourselves? How can we keep moving forward in our business, creating the change that we want, right, is to validate your feelings, you're feeling this way for a reason, right? They don't just come out of nowhere. And when we can acknowledge and support and validate our feelings, right, then we don't we don't need that validation from other people. And we don't seek it from people that can't give it to us. Right? When people are dismissing our feelings and dismissing your experiences. That is because they cannot validate and they're stuck in their own experience and our own trauma. Okay, so part of it is we have to stop seeking it seeking validation, love and support from people that cannot give it right and this is why I say everything that you need is within you. Your feelings are valid. and your experiences are valid. They may not be current experiences, right? For many times, they are for many, many people. My God, goodness, I don't want to dismiss that because there's a lot going on for people. Right? But when it we can look at it going, I don't know why I'm anxious because, you know, I've got you know, finances or okay my relationships, okay, roof overhead, like lice. Okay, but why am I so anxious? Why am I so stressed? Why can I not move through this point in my business? Why am I stuck? That is often that we are responding to an old wound, right? Though, just sit with a valley, it is safe for me to feel this way. It's safe for me to feel my feelings. Right? And then when you can do that, then you're going to go into going, Okay. What else have I felt like this? What's been triggered? Big thing is that we can't change or heal that with which we don't understand or know. We can figure out what's been triggered where this is coming from, boom, that's gold. We can we can move through that? No, I'm so glad you brought that up. Because we got to validate your feelings. They don't come up for no reason you've experienced it. And you don't need anyone else to validate that because they won't because they've not lived your life. And they may not have responded in the way that you did. At that current moment. They experienced something. Oh, yeah, most people haven't done their work. So we're seeking it from people that haven't done their work to then show up for us and they just can't, that doesn't, you know, they're still loving, they're still great people. They just can't do show up in the way that we need. And that's okay. But it doesn't mean that we stop our work. We do it within us.

Susan Shannon 46:44

Yeah. Oh, that's so good. Yes. If anyone out there listening has been even in my shoes where it's been like a while I'm struggling, but I don't you know, people are telling me that that's silly. Why? Because, you know, I have this great life. And I have this thing going for me and I have this thing going for me and they can't understand why I'm anxious all the time. You know, I think I bet so therefore, I must be crazy. I felt that way for a long time. So Hear, hear us go back and listen to this episode. Again. Dig more of this out. really allow yourself yeah, to tell yourself I am trustworthy. That was a big mantra for me. Was I am trustworthy. I can trust myself. I can trust my feelings. Wow, that was a big one. I can trust my intuition. That one took a long time. But wow, it was it is a good

Tara Phillips 47:38

what I call the the reattachment process, right. Because when we experience that sort of drama, we detached from us, right in order to create safety. Focus on other people get two steps ahead, wherever that may be. So when we connect with our emotions, we feel safe with our emotions, we release them, we allow them to come up and we allow them to be released. And we trust her gut, we trust her intuition. That's the reattachment process. That's the healing that needs to happen. And to me, going back to where we originally said was that emotional stability. That was it, I trusted myself, I trusted my gut without a doubt. And I trusted my ability. Because I learned boundaries. I learned my worth, I learned how to communicate, I learned how to stop taking care of other people who value myself and see them as a fully capable adult that they were not all of that as a promising emotional stability.

Susan Shannon 48:37

Really quick, you've mentioned this in our previous kind of conversations before off air, and you just mentioned it again. But this one is a big thing. So if we fall into the the caretaking role and making sure everyone else is okay, those kind of patterns are codependency in that way. You've mentioned a few times seeing people as the capable adults that they are so seeing yourself as the capable adult that you are and seeing other people as a capable adults that they are. I didn't realize that this was part of the pattern, but it was almost like offensive to people after a while. They're like, Dude, I can do this, Susan, like you don't have to emotionally process this for me. I got this. That was a huge wake up call for me as well to like, Oh, you're right, you're an adult, and you get to process your emotions wide. So no, I this is crazy. So I wanted to call that out, too. I remember on another conversation you had mentioned something about like, you know, people I trust that people are going to be able to get through it like people are going to be okay, they've been through worse than this. You know, and I just I love your perspective on that. I think it's a good reminder. Do you have anything more to say on that?

Tara Phillips 49:39

And I was gonna say that if they need help, they need support, they will come ask that I no longer give unsolicited advice. Because to me it's not it's disrespectful, because and I'm assuming that they can't handle what it is that you know is going on in the world. And so people will often ask Will saying well, but I'm a caring person. I like to help people. So Why, right? But the difference, I don't jump in automatically and fix their problems, I will sit back and I will respect them and give them the space that they can figure it out. And if they can't, and they come to help ask me for help, I'll say, or I will tell you what you've done already. That's okay. Yeah, I tried this. I tried that. And I still can't, I still can't figure it out. Absolutely. So to me, I am then that is helping that support. If I did jumped in originally, oh, no, I'm rescuing caretaking. And the thing with like, society, and what we think is normal is that we often think that caretaking and rescuing is actually love and support and it's not. Right, so it changed the lens in which we see people. But it's hard because the caretaking and rescuing is a survival response. It protects our wounds of a getting hurt, being rejected, abandoned or judged. So it's kind of sitting in that building us up. So that feels safe to go. Okay. So back, you can do it. And let me know if you need help. Because it's often hard what I see with people that when you get an unbalanced relationship, or one is just kind of sitting back and things are being done for them, and then you've got the overly responsible person, isn't it? It's often people think, well, it's gonna be really hard for the person, like start stepping up and doing things. And it really isn't, because to them, it's just doing chores and taking responsibility for the overly responsible person to kind of come down and let go of things. It is terrifying. Because you're stepping into vulnerability. I don't know that if I don't take care of everything. I don't know if I'm gonna be okay. If we're gonna be okay. There's fear around it. No, it is definitely process. But it's so so worth it. Because this is our trauma response. This is how we show up in our relationships, that keeps the trauma reoccurring in our life, keeps seeing xiety keeps the depression keeps all of it going. Hmm.

Susan Shannon 52:02

Man, so good. Can you give? If this is it? Um, let me know if this feels good or not. But does it feel good to give examples of what some healthy boundaries might look like? You've mentioned a few I think already such as you know, do they? Do they need to see it a post on social media? No, you know, or like small things like that? Are there some other examples of everyday boundaries that we can put up? Is that kind of a kind of a good thing to talk about is that that's really going to be case by case. But

Tara Phillips 52:38

well, the one that I often tell a lot is no or No, thank you is a complete boundary.

Susan Shannon 52:45

Is it? No, no, thank you is

Tara Phillips 52:47

it's a complete boundary? Yes, right. We don't need to justify you don't need to explain. You don't need to get anyone's approval or acceptance to set your boundary. Right. It's hard, because a lot of people, you know, they understand me what a boundary is, they understand how to implement it. But a lot of times, I don't know what my boundaries need to be. And so maybe I could just talk a little bit about that of just, you know, paying attention to how you feel angry, we're getting resentful, or doing things that we don't want to do. Those are all indicators that you are crossing your own boundary. Right. So a friend says, Hey, you want to go get some dinner? You know, like, I really just want to sit in the couch and watch TV and not do anything, but I'll go okay, sure. Well, no, then you go, and you're exhausted, kind of irritated. Right? Come back. NATO's and go how you wanted to? What did you really want to do? I really want to stay home. Why didn't you say that? Well, I was I didn't want to upset her. And she took the time to reach out to me and I didn't think that it was okay. Or, you know, someone asked me to do something I need to go and do it. Hmm. But how did that make you feel? Exhausted and I'm irritated. So we pay attention how we feel, especially resentment, anger, frustration, is often a boundary has been crossed, or a boundary needs to be implemented. So it could be for example, Frank calls up you want to do something. What I tell people is give yourself some space and yeah, let me think about like get back to you in 10 minutes. 15 minutes. Take the time to really think about it going. What do I what do I really want to do? Now? What I think I should do what first thing comes to mind? Do I want to go no, okay. The laundry? How do I want the thought I want to phrase it we often think well okay, if someone asks, I gotta give it right away. Right? So attacks me how I got a text right back someone calls I got to answer the phone. Give yourself space, to think about it to consider you. Consider what you want, what your boundary needs to be, and then implement it. There's a lot of this Isn't there automatic programming of Okay? Yep, sure, I'll do whatever. Okay. Give yourself space.

Susan Shannon 55:07

Oh, part of my, I feel like part of my anxiety recovery, I love to laugh about it and like, hey, you know, email response time, give me a week, no text messages, give me a solid 24 hours, you know, like, little things like that. It's not always the case, but But it's, you know, phone call, leave a voicemail. Think about it, you know, but that actually felt so, so strange. And at first, you know, cuz I used to avoid it. I used to have like, those kinds of like, well, I just, I'll just avoid that, that that's happening. I just won't I just won't answer, you know, but actually there, what I really needed to do is take the time to process it, and then understand that no, thank you, or what really helped you as well. I don't know if I have the capacity for that right now. Especially if a friend or a co worker, or anybody wanted to emotionally dump on me, because I'm such an efficient emotional processor. It would be a you know what, I'm kind of dealing with my own stuff today. Is it? Okay, if we reschedule this conversation? I don't have the capacity for right now. Wow, that boundary blew my mind.

Tara Phillips 56:23

You know, the other thing with boundaries, too, is that boundaries, my perspective is how we teach people how to treat us by what we put up with. And what we don't put up with. And why we don't put boundaries is because at some point, we learn that it's not safe to they're not respected. You know, they're not maintained. And so when we don't have boundaries, is because our whole focus is still on other people. Right? And that survival mentality, so for you to say, hey, I don't have the capacity for this. What I hear is that, hey, I'm actually considering me, right? And when we are in survival, you're not really considering yourself through your emotional well being. Right? We're just protecting our wounds left and right. So boundaries are how we teach people how to treat us, they're so so important. But if we don't have any worth, low self esteem, we struggle with self hatred, boundaries. That's nothing. Right? Apart part of healing all areas of your life, even in your your business, and your work is to raise the bar and that bars are self esteem and self worth. Yeah, right. Like, not taking on the wrong clients, not under charging yourself right now overworking yourself, to be able to say no to those things, we have to raise the bar of like, Hey, I think my worth what I give, actually is more equivalent to this price. Or this is a number of clients that I should take on, right, that sort of thing. Being able to do that means Hey, I'm valuing me and I see my worth.

Susan Shannon 57:59

So good. I know that we could talk for hours. So I want to respect your time as well, too. We could literally talk about this all day. I do want to get to some of these questions. We got an Instagram when I was talking about this one in particular, because I feel like some of the other ones we've kind of answered throughout the conversation today. But this one in particular, I want to ask, you know, again, practically, how do you deal with triggers as they arise in your day to day life? We have talked about it already on this conversation. But what are your few nugget takeaways for today? For listeners listening to this right now? Maybe they are feeling heightened anxiety right now. Maybe they are feeling disconnected from ourselves or not sure what they want. They know they need something, but they're not quite sure. So how are how are what are a couple of nuggets really quick that somebody could take into their day to day, as some of these triggers may be around codependency or lack of boundaries, or any of that comes up.

Tara Phillips 59:02

I think the first thing that comes to mind is slowing down. You know, especially if we have struggled with anxiety, there's a lot of energy, and there's a lot of anxiousness. Actually of quick fixes to make me feel better to tap into avoidance is to really slow down, journaling, doing some energy work, you know, maybe do some yoga, do some Kundalini. Reiki, I mean, talk about all the different sort of energy things but essentially it is to slow down, slow down your breathing. Maybe get out a journal at the end of the day and kind of just process allow yourself the time and space to process. Why I felt this way how I was feeling where it came up, right to just slow down and work through it. If you're hearing this, you're like oh my goodness, like this is a lot and I can see a lot in myself. What I want to do is just to encourage everybody, to just take them information and to just be an observer. Don't do anything else other than just observe, where's this showing up in my life? And is it causing any problems? And let that be enough? Deep breathing? ground yourself if you get triggered, okay? And yourself, is this? Am I really not safe? Or is this an old trigger that I'm actually I'm safe? So consider it. Where am I? Like, am I safe physically, emotionally, mentally. So there's an old wound, right? Or if you're not safe, you above anything else, you've got to create a sense of safety physically, absolutely. 100%. No, a lot of people go, Oh, my goodness, this is amazing, I see so much of this, like, I see a lot of this, well, this is can be very, can be very overwhelming. And it can trigger a lot of people. So don't do anything other than just observe and focus on self care, and grounding yourself and creating safety. That's what I would encourage people to do. I love it, don't, don't do anything, unless you're working with somebody. And you're, you're really getting that support and guidance from a trauma informed, you know, Coach, therapist, whatever, just observe, don't do anything else until you connect with somebody, because it can be a lot.

Susan Shannon 1:01:16

I back that up 100%. Totally. Yep. Work with somebody who gets it, who understands and is able to hold that safe container for you. Yeah. Amazing, which actually leads me to you have a group program right now that you are starting, do want to talk I do want to share where people can get in touch with that and

Tara Phillips 1:01:35

more. So we start off, we kick it off on the 28th of February of this month, it is going to be a group of 10 women, or, or anyone that identifies as female. And it's going to be a safe container to process any sort of trauma. Learn the boundaries. You know, I do have a Facebook group as well. It's called the Empowered Goddess within kind of a down there, they do trainings about self care and boundaries, dating after divorce and narcissistic abuse. But this group is going to be a very safe container, just kind of thought we're gonna sit and we're gonna create this really community, we're going to share stories, because in healing trauma, being able to share your story and have your story received and supported and understood is extremely therapeutic and healing. So stories are going to be different. But as human beings, we can connect with the emotions, we can connect with the difficulties, right. And when we know that we're not alone, it is massively important in the healing process. So it's really going to be like focusing on each person's going to be healing specifically from their trauma, but we're going to share and we're going to grow and we're going to talk about different ways of how to set boundaries and share specific situations that maybe they're not comfortable sharing in my Facebook group, right or just on Facebook or an Instagram. So it is filling it fast. There's only a couple of spots left. So it's a three month container. And I'm really, really excited about it. I just finished my last group and the women in there is their transformations are unbelievable. The bonds that they made with each other truly are their lifelong. And all of them are going through divorce, dealing with narcissistic or sociopathic exes, and how to navigate that, and just coming together, it was truly amazing. And it just is like why I do this work. How to take your power back and create the life that you want and you deserve. We have to heal our trauma wounds we have to learn how to do that. That's what I'm passionate about. So that's what I've got going on. Awesome. You can also just message me you can find me on Facebook, just pair Phillips or Philips coaching. The link to is also in my Instagram bio. So

Susan Shannon 1:03:57

awesome, which is at teraflops coaching. You guys go seriously follow Tara right now. Thank her for coming on this episode. I'm sure she would love to get the m saying thank you. And here's the biggest takeaway I had. And if you would love that, we would love it. If you would screenshot your podcast player, share it to your stories that other people can hear this episode to that would be amazing. Tara, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. I appreciate you so much. And the work that you do is needed. It's necessary. It's beautiful. And I'm so glad that you exist.

Tara Phillips 1:04:29

Oh, that's so nice. Susan, thank you. I appreciate you having me on. This was great. I could talk about this stuff all day. So thank you.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:36

Thank you